mishak: (Default)
mishak ([personal profile] mishak) wrote2008-11-12 12:14 pm

What Now

I’m wondering what will be the first disappointments of Obama’s presidency. There’s never been a US president taking office with such high expectations, realistic and unrealistic, and no one politician can be everything to all of his constituents. Signing on to Bush’s Warrantless Wiretapping has been my biggest disappointment with Obama so far, when he did that I realized that there will be times he does the wrong thing in order to win other, hopefully more important battles later on. Of the things Obama has said he’ll do – closing the Guantanamo prison camp, getting out of Iraq in 16 months, balancing the budget with a fairer tax system, what promises do you think he’ll break? The things that inspire us to vote for him – that he would support reproductive rights, stem cell research, and marriage equality, that he would oppose torture, secret concentration camps, and corporate welfare – those are positions I’ve assigned to him based on my perceptions of his values but I haven’t heard of specific actions he’ll take. What if he turns out to be not as good as we thought he is, what if he’s only sorta-good, what if he was only an inspiring speaker and capable politician, and nothing more? Whatever he’ll do, whatever we can be, it’s so exciting to think about. The chance to emerge from the insanity of eight years of conservative republican disaster, it’s positively intoxicating. Now to see what we can do in the real world.

[identity profile] denimskater.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 05:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I think closing the prison camp will happen, because it's comparatively easy... I think he'll try for 16 months but miss by a bit because of inertia.

Most of the rest I see as being more difficult to change, because there are so many people involved. Corporate welfare removal would be tough to get through the rest of the system because there's so much incentive (despite laws restricting it) for the folks in power to cooperate with the corporations. Marriage equality is something that I can see him being very cautious with, mostly because it's the sort of thing that SHOULD be handled at the state level. Federal things should perhaps be rewritten a bit to be neutral, but other than that it's so hard to say. One man wanting change, even if he's the president, is not enough to make it happen.

When did I get so cynical?

[identity profile] jedi.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 05:27 pm (UTC)(link)
I'm really curious if he'll work with the Russian's to abandon the missile defense shield. They currently refuse to work with the Bush administration and feel like they're trying to leave Obama in a place where he's responsible for decisions he didn't make. Obama's stated policy is that he would like to see the shield tested before making it operational -- Bush wants it online NOW.

I'd rather, personally, see it totally abandoned.

I have high hopes that Obama will be more flexible and willing to work with Russia. I will be fairly disappointed if nothing changes in that region.

[identity profile] mishak.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 06:47 pm (UTC)(link)
Like everything else, the missile shield is a bargaining chip to use, he’ll give it away if there’s something to be gained: cooperation in leaning on Iran is the most obvious thing we want from Russia. But then we stopped caring about Iran so much when Russia invaded Georgia, which they did because Georgia was getting uppity and we were pushing to bring them into NATO. We’ve shown that we can’t oppose Russian power in the former satellites, and the Europeans aren’t about to oppose Russia either. So what does Russia want, that we could trade the missile shield for?

[identity profile] anechoic.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 06:17 pm (UTC)(link)
I’m wondering what will be the first disappointments of Obama’s presidency.

Well,this looks promising.

[identity profile] canongrrl.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 11:44 pm (UTC)(link)
fwiw - 9/11 was almost completely on W and his lack of listening (and the congress trying to impeach a president over a cigar). Just sayin' IBD has a very definite agenda and that agenda is very, very red.

No, the first disappointment might be Rubin and/or Summers getting back into the Treasury Dept - I mean those are the two who helped make sure CDS weren't regulated.

Kerry as Sec. State would also kind of suck.

Second (as Cris mentioned) will be Afghanistan and Pakistan - honestly I'm not sure how they are going to accomplish this, but they'll do something.

Gitmo will close, there will be trials, and the people will be released. I'm sure we'll see a few from the other prisons go, and some "get lost" and others get handed over to friendly middle eastern Central European regimes.

I do think Universal Health Care will happen, and it will happen in such a way that leads to single payer several years down the line (yay) and I'm sure Obama will return taxes to the Clinton levels (if not a little higher for things like capital gains). He'll do something for corp taxes, most likely not enough. He'll hopefully raise the min wage...he will do public works to stimulate the economy (I'm debating on investing more into green companies) - and in infrastructure (hello caterpillar). These are also low hanging fruit that will help with a long recession. The good news is that he has a lot of bright people who know what FDR did right and wrong so there is hope that Obama will at least not repeat the same mistakes.

Overall I have a hunch Obama will be a lot more center left than people think, and that may annoy some people - but honestly that may be the best place. I also think he'll do a lot more than we think, but maybe not exactly as we expected

[identity profile] jackfaust.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 06:23 pm (UTC)(link)
Gitmo will close within a year, with the remaining prisoners repatriated or moved to a Federal facility.

War will end (for us) with a final withdrawal about two years from now.

Those are the wins, and easy wins (in terms of pleasing public opinion) they will be.

Less sure is how he will handle the fiscal/economic crisis. A serious contraction in both foreign aid and military projection overseas is required. Concurrently, we need to see a re-invigoration of our domestic manufacturing base. These will not happen quickly or easily.

TO balance this contraction, efforts must be focused on the repair and modernization of our domestic infrastructure. Crumbling roads and bridges, inefficient power plants and delivery systems, and a lack of modern refineries for petroleum are all needed.

As for industry, if he wants to save the Detroit auto makers, set goals to meet, and use the carrot-and-stick approach to make/encourage them to meet them. Once better, more efficient cars are available, put in tax breaks to encourage consumers to buy them.

[identity profile] mishak.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 06:58 pm (UTC)(link)
Closing Gitmo won’t be meaningful unless we deal with every one of those prisoners in a fair and transparent fashion, and address the ongoing CIA kidnappings and secret prisons as well. I don’t think I’ve heard a plan about how the Obama administration intends to do this, but then I haven’t been looking into much.

Withdrawing from Iraq won’t be a win unless it becomes and somewhat stable nation, reasonably free of Iranian (and every other) influence, and with a minimum of ethnic cleansing and genocide. I suppose it would split up into three different countries – Sunni, Shia, and Kurd; is that “good” outcome? I dunno, what do we think about the breakup of Yugoslavia?

[identity profile] jackfaust.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 08:55 pm (UTC)(link)
We haven't dealt with them in a fair or transparent fashion up till now, so why expect that to change? As for the secret prisons, prison ships and "extraordinary renditions", expect a flurry of activity prior to January 20th, where most "persons of interest" end up in the gentle hands of our Eastern European or Middle Eastern friends.

Oh, and no doubt one of those prison ships will end up at the bottom of the sea. But you and I will barely hear of the "accident" with the poorly-kept cargo ship, will we?

The current administration has a lot of bodies to bury - literally - before they leave.

As for Iraq, look for a repeat of the Soviet withdrawal/retreat from Afghanistan. (relatively) Quick, a bit messy, and covered with spin. And yeah, we'll see a "balkanization" of the region similar to Yugoslavia, but this does not surprise me, as the Middle East, much like central Africa, was divided politically by Western colonial powers for their own interests, and with little care for the regional clan/political/religious structures. A reshuffle in Iraq is inevitable - the only question is the level of brutality it will generate.

[identity profile] mishak.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 09:08 pm (UTC)(link)
That’s what I was wondering about for the Obama administration – will they continue the atrocities of the Bush administration, or just stop the most heinous activities but sweep the past under the rug of Classified / Homeland Security? It would be inspiring if we could see our government really change, and try to address the misdeeds of the past in an open and honest fashion, and with that honesty go forward into an era when our government isn’t acting like a hypocritical, bullying douchebag. Will we be disappointed if they don’t? Again, it depends on how much faith I’ve put in Obama’s character.

[identity profile] cris.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 06:33 pm (UTC)(link)
personally, I see Afghanistan as a yawning abyss of uncertainty. While Obama will certainly get you guys out of Iraq, he's committed to staying Afghanistan until he finds and kills bin Laden, and then?

Oh, well, let's worry about that later.

I think, if anything, you guys need to stay ensure stability in the region, and that's going to be a tougher, more tedious slog than Iraq, as it will also entail building a civil society from the ground up. There's a lot of potential in there to contradict Obama's earlier antiwar rhetoric as most of his early calls have been about snuffing out Al Qaeda and killing Bin Laden, but not necessarily rebuilding the country. I think that he sincerely believes that Afghanistan must be stabilised, but it's going to be tough for him to sell that to voters who just don't want see any more foreign troop deployments.

[identity profile] mishak.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 07:06 pm (UTC)(link)
Oh yeah, Afghanistan means thinking about Pakistan, and that situation is WAY more complicated than Iraq. Negotiating with (bribing) the Taliban like we did the Sunnis in Iraq might be our only feasible option, it’s the only example of any success in Iraq. Can Afghanistan be rebuilt without getting rid of the Taliban, can it exist as a country with the Taliban as a part of the government? Would the Taliban have to change into a more moderate entity in order to become part of the establishment, that doesn’t seem likely. Well, about as likely as the Afghani government becoming less corrupt and responsible to its citizens. And whatever we do, we’re not going to get much help from Europe, because they have so many of their own problems to deal with.

[identity profile] cris.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 11:59 pm (UTC)(link)
Negotiating with (bribing) the Taliban like we did the Sunnis in Iraq might be our only feasible option, it’s the only example of any success in Iraq. Can Afghanistan be rebuilt without getting rid of the Taliban, can it exist as a country with the Taliban as a part of the government?
I agree that getting the Taliban to buy in is necessary, and it's also necessary to either include them in the government or include those who would support them. I think the big spin about the Sunnis in Iraq is that the success was in getting the Sunnis to tell all of the al-Qaeda folks to get lost, go home to Egypt or Saudi and blow themselves up there. There's not so much progress in getting the Sunnis to accept a Shia majority government or talk about power-sharing. Everyone's just waiting for the Americans to leave.

The Taliban, on the other hand, are an indigenous insurgency, and so evicting them from the country is less of an option. I tend to think, though, that you can still focus on eroding their base of sympathy. At the end of it all, the Taliban enjoy popular support partially because they have community roots, but also because they keep order and get things done. Without them, folks beyond the major cities have to fend for themselves in what is defacto anarchy. So, swamp the area with security, pave its valleys, get it so that cops from Kabul can actually drive in to the remotest sections of the Hindu Kush in a couple of days.

That's kind of been the strategy so far, but done on the cheap with leftovers in men and resources from the war in Iraq. I think that, even with Iraq shut down, and surge directed to Afghanistan it will take a good few years to stabilize Iraq while still taking casualties and still getting this vague feeling that the people that you're trying to help still kind of hate you. You just have to stick it out.

As far as what your allies can contribute -- I think things can change with new leadership at the helm. I know that the war's been largely unpopular in Canada, but that's largely linked with not wanting to have our folks die just to support your recklessness. However, there's still support for the cause across NATO. I think you hear a lot about nations not wanting to put troops in harm's way, like Germans or Spanish, but you don't hear about, say, France post-Sarkozy has ante'd up and reconfirmed its participation. It's still not enough to match the American presence, but it's more than token.

[identity profile] industrialsteve.livejournal.com 2008-11-12 11:58 pm (UTC)(link)
plus the cold war comming back!
russia re-arming plus doing naval exercizes with venezula,
and opening talks with cuba.

[identity profile] mishak.livejournal.com 2008-11-13 04:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Dude I so miss the Russians their hardware is awesome! Saw some video of the Su-35, it is so hott.